Bartleby Blog
Using the Billy Collins poem, discuss how its meaning helps us understand Bartleby and the philosophical values which dictate his actions (or lack thereof) in the short story. Your contributions/comments need to occur at least 24 hours apart—don’t post two times in a row. Each comment must not exceed 75 words – so be concise!
Perhaps we can see how Bartleby is one of those who “just refuse to batten down”; he offers resistance to his employer’s and society’s will. Ironically, he resists by refusing to do anything, because as an employee, Bartleby faces social pressure to work.
Isolationism for Bartleby is removing oneself from society’s influence by ignoring its forces. Because he does so, nobody in society can understand him, since everyone else plays along (like the other scriveners).
I found the poem's major battle of interpretation to be whether the skater was a representation of Bartleby, or the boss. The boss may be just as guilty of isolating himself as Bartleby. The boss doesn't see that his own passiveness is just as persistent as Bartleby’s, and eventually falls into his own isolation. In relation to the poem, I think that the skater represents the boss, and reveals the power the “big gale,” isolation, has. While not promoting isolationism, the poem simply suggests that those who refuse to succumb to isolation may be just as subject to it as more vulnerable individuals.
Because you say that Bartley "refused to batten down," what would you say about the "flying people" at the end of the poem? While attempting to stay as alone as possible, the poem suggests that Bartleby would end up surrounded by those who followed a similar path (maybe after his death?). In this case, by staying completely isolated for so long he’d ultimately find himself not alone. Perhaps this suggests how unnatural isolation is, or another difficulty isolation can bring.
I wouldn’t say that the boss's passiveness causes him to be isolated, nor is his “passiveness” as persistent as Bartleby's behavior; though refraining from calling the police, the employer attempts repeatedly to get rid of Bartleby. Furthermore, the fact that the poem is titled “For Bartleby the Scrivener” suggests to me that the boss isn’t the one being addressed / discussed. I would take the poem to mean that the speaker can understand Bartleby’s attitude.
Hari, I see your point that the poem may be directed toward Bartleby's attitude based on the title. That being said, I think that there is still a relationship between the Boss and Bartleby in terms of isolation. Possibly, this poem can help us understand not only Bartleby's fate, but also that of the Boss. For Bartleby, the "flying people" at the end symbolize his death in meeting the rest of the people that "refused to batten down." Thus suggesting that isolating oneself leads to demise. At the end of the story, the once happy Boss also ends up in another world altered by the isolation he exposed himself to, joining the rest of the unsettled world.
Hari I agree with your interpretation of Isolationism. It reminds me of Beranger’s unwillingness to conform in rhinoceros. That being said, what is the speaker attempting to convey about those who choose isolation. Before they are referred to negatively and their refusal to “batten down” is viewed as redundant. Eventually however, they are the “flying people, I believe the speaker is suggesting those who choose isolation end up on top of those who conform.
Alexis, I have to disagree with you that "those who choose isolation end up on top of those who conform." In a literal sense from the poem, Collins says that if you are chasing after something you cannot achieve (represented by the skaters getting pushed backwards after trying so hard), "you will then fall on your ass". Bartleby was chasing after isolationism and chasing after something so frivolous caused him to fall on his "ass".
I understand where you're coming from Tim, but I think we have to consider that the poem continues after the line "you will then fall on your ass". Collins may be mocking Bartleby for his excessive attempt to remain isolated, but how would you explain the "flying people"? What is their significance in relationship to Bartleby and isolation? When it says “you will exchange knowing waves”, could this suggest isolated people are never truly alone?
Collins seems to be a quirky poet, judging from the two poems we have read. When he mentions the flying people, he is not necessarily suggesting that Bartleby is less alone than his isolationism might suggest. He may just be writing to note that he or some other people can understand his actions. Furthermore, we don’t really know what became of those who battened down, so I kind of see his point as more neutral.
When Collins writes about the "flying people" exchanging waves, it is safe to assume that those people are also people that failed trying to achieve something they cannot, like Bartleby. Because of this, we can infer that the "flying people" are people just as isolated as Bartleby and are also the ones who refused to batten down. For if they would have battened down, then they would not be in the predicament that they are.
Perhaps the poem is less of a commentary on one who "chases isolationism", and is more absurd. The "big gale" represents life, and those who try to power through it are pushed back, but end up as more or less the norm, exchanging “knowing waves” with one another. Bartleby would therefore be the individual who didn’t subscribe to such an absurd and meaningless lifestyle, but whether that is good or bad remains ambiguous.
Caitlin, I like your idea that Bartleby and other isolationists are merely avoiding the absurdity and almost meaninglessness of life. The connotation of Bartleby "refusing to batten down" seems to suggest that he evaded settling with such a shallow life. As a result, he and others who acknowledged this nature of the world were able to "ride the great wind north.” This could perhaps glorify isolationism as a gateway to a better understanding of the world.
Perhaps we can see how Bartleby is one of those who “just refuse to batten down”; he offers resistance to his employer’s and society’s will. Ironically, he resists by refusing to do anything, because as an employee, Bartleby faces social pressure to work.
ReplyDeleteIsolationism for Bartleby is removing oneself from society’s influence by ignoring its forces. Because he does so, nobody in society can understand him, since everyone else plays along (like the other scriveners).
I found the poem's major battle of interpretation to be whether the skater was a representation of Bartleby, or the boss. The boss may be just as guilty of isolating himself as Bartleby. The boss doesn't see that his own passiveness is just as persistent as Bartleby’s, and eventually falls into his own isolation. In relation to the poem, I think that the skater represents the boss, and reveals the power the “big gale,” isolation, has. While not promoting isolationism, the poem simply suggests that those who refuse to succumb to isolation may be just as subject to it as more vulnerable individuals.
ReplyDeleteBecause you say that Bartley "refused to batten down," what would you say about the "flying people" at the end of the poem? While attempting to stay as alone as possible, the poem suggests that Bartleby would end up surrounded by those who followed a similar path (maybe after his death?). In this case, by staying completely isolated for so long he’d ultimately find himself not alone. Perhaps this suggests how unnatural isolation is, or another difficulty isolation can bring.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn’t say that the boss's passiveness causes him to be isolated, nor is his “passiveness” as persistent as Bartleby's behavior; though refraining from calling the police, the employer attempts repeatedly to get rid of Bartleby.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, the fact that the poem is titled “For Bartleby the Scrivener” suggests to me that the boss isn’t the one being addressed / discussed. I would take the poem to mean that the speaker can understand Bartleby’s attitude.
Hari, I see your point that the poem may be directed toward Bartleby's attitude based on the title. That being said, I think that there is still a relationship between the Boss and Bartleby in terms of isolation. Possibly, this poem can help us understand not only Bartleby's fate, but also that of the Boss. For Bartleby, the "flying people" at the end symbolize his death in meeting the rest of the people that "refused to batten down." Thus suggesting that isolating oneself leads to demise. At the end of the story, the once happy Boss also ends up in another world altered by the isolation he exposed himself to, joining the rest of the unsettled world.
ReplyDeleteHari I agree with your interpretation of Isolationism. It reminds me of Beranger’s unwillingness to conform in rhinoceros. That being said, what is the speaker attempting to convey about those who choose isolation. Before they are referred to negatively and their refusal to “batten down” is viewed as redundant. Eventually however, they are the “flying people, I believe the speaker is suggesting those who choose isolation end up on top of those who conform.
ReplyDeleteAlexis, I have to disagree with you that "those who choose isolation end up on top of those who conform." In a literal sense from the poem, Collins says that if you are chasing after something you cannot achieve (represented by the skaters getting pushed backwards after trying so hard), "you will then fall on your ass". Bartleby was chasing after isolationism and chasing after something so frivolous caused him to fall on his "ass".
ReplyDeleteI understand where you're coming from Tim, but I think we have to consider that the poem continues after the line "you will then fall on your ass". Collins may be mocking Bartleby for his excessive attempt to remain isolated, but how would you explain the "flying people"? What is their significance in relationship to Bartleby and isolation? When it says “you will exchange knowing waves”, could this suggest isolated people are never truly alone?
ReplyDeleteCollins seems to be a quirky poet, judging from the two poems we have read. When he mentions the flying people, he is not necessarily suggesting that Bartleby is less alone than his isolationism might suggest. He may just be writing to note that he or some other people can understand his actions. Furthermore, we don’t really know what became of those who battened down, so I kind of see his point as more neutral.
ReplyDeleteWhen Collins writes about the "flying people" exchanging waves, it is safe to assume that those people are also people that failed trying to achieve something they cannot, like Bartleby. Because of this, we can infer that the "flying people" are people just as isolated as Bartleby and are also the ones who refused to batten down. For if they would have battened down, then they would not be in the predicament that they are.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the poem is less of a commentary on one who "chases isolationism", and is more absurd. The "big gale" represents life, and those who try to power through it are pushed back, but end up as more or less the norm, exchanging “knowing waves” with one another. Bartleby would therefore be the individual who didn’t subscribe to such an absurd and meaningless lifestyle, but whether that is good or bad remains ambiguous.
ReplyDeleteCaitlin, I like your idea that Bartleby and other isolationists are merely avoiding the absurdity and almost meaninglessness of life. The connotation of Bartleby "refusing to batten down" seems to suggest that he evaded settling with such a shallow life. As a result, he and others who acknowledged this nature of the world were able to "ride the great wind north.” This could perhaps glorify isolationism as a gateway to a better understanding of the world.
ReplyDelete